Prop 21: More California BS--Yes or No? I vote no. - California Bass Fishing Forum
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Old 09-07-2010, 10:17 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Prop 21: More California BS--Yes or No? I vote no.

Well, here we go again.

Do I really want to pay an additional $18/year on vehicle registration taxes to have "All access to all State Parks"? No.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/opinion/ci_15987049

Currently, if you pay $165 for a year permit for vehicle and boat, you would have to use the State Park and lakes system 9 times to almost break even. As a tournament fisherman, I can do this by fishing Folsom and Oroville easily within a 6 month time frame, which leaves three "freebies" to fish Folsom. I can easily fish Folsom 3 times in one week to redeem the fee.

Now let's say the proposition passes. Now everyone who owns a vehicle pays an additional "All access Park tax" under their vehicle registration. Can you say, "Disneyland at the dock?"

This is what's on the table with Prop 21. The state is going to need more than $18 per car to pay state employees to clean up the added trash, increase enforcement and the list goes on. At this point in time, If the proposition were to pass, I predict that HALF of that money WOULD NOT go to preserving parks and wildlife conservation, but would fall into the wrong hands. As corrupt as California politicians already are, why give them more control over an already ailing state?

What's next?

P.S. I'm already paying over $500 a year on 3 vehicles. No, I don't want to pay an additional $54, thank you very much.



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Old 09-07-2010, 11:03 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Prop 21: More California BS--Yes or No? I vote no.

According to the SJ Mercury News, there were 32 million cars registered in CA in 2007. At $18 each that would equal 576 million dollars (remember that's using the '07 figures) Even if the corrupt state takes half for other projects (and there's no proof that they will), that still leaves 288 million to pay for parks, plus whatever is collected from out of state residents at the current rates. And just because they pay the 18 dollars, it doesn't mean that every registered vehicle in the state is going to use or abuse the facilities.

I would think that if you're paying $165/year now and have the opportunity to get the same use for $54/year it would be worthwhile.

Disclaimer: I haven't read the bill and am merely responding using simple math.
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Old 09-07-2010, 11:57 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Prop 21: More California BS--Yes or No? I vote no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bryanmc
I would think that if you're paying $165/year now and have the opportunity to get the same use for $54/year it would be worthwhile.

Disclaimer: I haven't read the bill and am merely responding using simple math.

Thank you for the disclaimer.

Since you haven't read the bill, let me just highlight the a few of the most important issues at hand, instead of crunching numbers.

"While we agree that California parks are major assets to the quality of life in the state, they are not the top priority at a time when schools, public works and other critical local and state services are being cut."

"These fees and charges can be raised, if needed. In fact, many state parks have increased fees, which are paid only by those who use the facilities."

"Proposition 21's appeal in understandable as is the motivation of those who placed it on the ballot. But in a time of fiscal crisis, this is not the time to increase taxes to pay for a service that already has the ability to pay for itself. Proposition 21 is the wrong measure at the wrong time, voters should reject it."

If the Prop fails to pass (and I highly doubt that it will), I would rather pay the $165/year to keep the rif/raff out of the parks. NO FREE LUNCH!

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Old 09-08-2010, 12:04 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Prop 21: More California BS--Yes or No? I vote no.

They are probably counting on not many more people visiting the parks than do now.



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Old 09-08-2010, 12:14 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Prop 21: More California BS--Yes or No? I vote no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Cornish
They are probably counting on not many more people visiting the parks than do now.
Greg,

With all due respect, I believe it is just the opposite. There are a lot of people who don't use the parks simply because it costs money. If the general public sees this prop as a chance to use/visit any state park, they will vote yes because all they have to do is write one check to pay for their vehicle registration, and they're in. I also believe we would see a huge degradation of the parks if this passes, especially during the warm and hot months.
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Old 09-08-2010, 08:47 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Prop 21: More California BS--Yes or No? I vote no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drrakruz

"While we agree that California parks are major assets to the quality of life in the state, they are not the top priority at a time when schools, public works and other critical local and state services are being cut."

Translation: If we deem necessary, we will close parks to save money to be used for other things.

"These fees and charges can be raised, if needed. In fact, many state parks have increased fees, which are paid only by those who use the facilities."

Translation: We may choose to increase the fees for park use beyond the $165 you pay now.

this is not the time to increase taxes to pay for a service that already has the ability to pay for itself.

It has the ability, however, I don't think they do. I don't remember, how many parks were closed last year? I agree with Greg, I don't think it would dramatically increase the traffic in most parks, of course, no one has a crystal ball. I think it would, however, help pay for staff and upkeep to help insure they don't get trashed.
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Old 09-08-2010, 09:42 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Prop 21: More California BS--Yes or No? I vote no.

If anyone thinks that money the state "earmarks" to go toward a specific function is going to 100% got to that function, they need their head checked. All money the state takes in will go to the general fund, and that will in turn go to bad contracts, unions, corrupt business deals, and wherever else the state deems it to be better put to use. I wouldn't think it would be too much longer before the state came back and began charging a stae park use fee again, on top of the new automatic vehicle registration fee if it were to pass.

No thanks, Big Brother. I'll go ahead and decide for myself if I want to pay to use the state park system. Your input is not necesary or even wanted on the matter. You need to be looking at ways to reduce our taxes and reduce state spending so that people will quit leaving this state for others that don't always try to rape their wallets at every turn.
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Old 09-08-2010, 09:48 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Prop 21: More California BS--Yes or No? I vote no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bryanmc
Quote:
Originally Posted by drrakruz

"While we agree that California parks are major assets to the quality of life in the state, they are not the top priority at a time when schools, public works and other critical local and state services are being cut."

Translation: If we deem necessary, we will close parks to save money to be used for other things.

"These fees and charges can be raised, if needed. In fact, many state parks have increased fees, which are paid only by those who use the facilities."

Translation: We may choose to increase the fees for park use beyond the $165 you pay now.

this is not the time to increase taxes to pay for a service that already has the ability to pay for itself.

It has the ability, however, I don't think they do. I don't remember, how many parks were closed last year? I agree with Greg, I don't think it would dramatically increase the traffic in most parks, of course, no one has a crystal ball. I think it would, however, help pay for staff and upkeep to help insure they don't get trashed.
So did you read the entire article, or did you take the easy way out and just speculate on the points I highlighted?

I've got a dollar that says you didn't read the entire article.

It's obvious that you don't have crystal balls. The prop is there. Vote as you may. This is just another way for the state to steal your money. If you enjoy the state stealing your money, by all means vote "YES".

Translation of you voting yes: "I'm an idiot".

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Old 09-08-2010, 10:50 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Prop 21: More California BS--Yes or No? I vote no.

You could be right. I.was just talking abbot a politicians view
Quote:
Originally Posted by drrakruz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Cornish
They are probably counting on not many more people visiting the parks than do now.
Greg,

With all due respect, I believe it is just the opposite. There are a lot of people who don't use the parks simply because it costs money. If the general public sees this prop as a chance to use/visit any state park, they will vote yes because all they have to do is write one check to pay for their vehicle registration, and they're in. I also believe we would see a huge degradation of the parks if this passes, especially during the warm and hot months.


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